There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. How have things changed over the decades? :). Priestly and monastic vocations have dropped through the floor, sexual abuse has skyrocketed (its not just that it was always happening but was exposed recently, it is pretty clear that sex abuse itself has gone way up post Vatican II), church attendance is way down, retention rates among youth have plummeted- one could go on. Thanks again Brent! 1) In your opinion, which group is currently winning in their arguments regarding the truth claims of church, the critics or the apologetics? They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. It was fascinating and enlightening to see the underbelly of ongoings between church leaders and members. Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. accounting for llc member buyout; black barber shops chicago; otto ohlendorf descendants; 97 4runner brake bleeding; Freundschaft aufhoren: zu welchem Zeitpunkt sera Semantik Starke & genau so wie parece fair ist und bleibt 7 czerwca 2022. And great questions John. Thanks again for your contribution to Mormon Studies and particularly for your diplomatic engagement with your critics. Be the first to contribute! Im not saying you need to have spiritual experiences to validate your work by any means if the facts are facts, but a higher power confirmation always helps. Watch the full match. But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study. All he had to say publicly if there was really no truth in it, was its simply not true and leave it at that. Thanks for the great podcast. Charles, I dont think I threw the baby out with the bathwater since my examination of the Hebrew and Christian scriptures resulted in the same intellectual concerns that I had with LDS scriptural extensions. The lack of discernment all the way back throughout all the church history The lack of congruence among the leadership with such a claim as who they say is at the head! So cool that you provided some of the research used by Michael Quinn. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/493__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_1.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/494__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_2.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-497-BrentMetcalfePt3.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-498-BrentMetcalfePt4.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499-BrentMetcalfePt5.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499b-BrentMetcalfePt6.mp3, https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm, Signature Books Mormon News, October 1317. Hope all is good with you. Salamander: The story of the Mormon forgery murders. You know, guilt by association. The irony is, I wasnt an activist for anything, I simply wanted to write. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. Do you have any idea what his views are now about the church, what he did, etc.? At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. The gift of your ADHD shines. Definitely one of my top 10 favorite stories on here. I love the podcasts. Yes, thats the book, though the volume I perused was the first (1816) edition published in Portsmouth, NH. Brent Metcalf of the USA defeats Franklin Maren of Cuba to win Gold in the Men's 65kg Freestyle Final during the Toronto 2015 Pan Am Games at the. I happen to believe so. My application of Vatican II was specifically intended for the work of Catholic biblical scholars, not Catholicism in toto. I was there at the very beginning. the tall man aboriginal spirit; metadata api request failed: component conversion failed: file_ended; caleb foote sandlot Again, Im not sure that you would disagree with any of this. Thanks so much for posting this. I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. If you hadnt been excommunicated would you still be a member today? I was with one of his relatives the day he was charged with the bombings, and she was totally shocked & absolutely certain he had nothing to do with it. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. This was interesting all around. In Part 1, Brent talks about his early days in the Church and his time working for Church security. [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. I teared up with Brent during that part. Hofmann really believed he could pull it all off, and maybe it wasnt just the police who thwarted his scheme? Ack! All this transpired in the 1980s, just around the time Mark Hofmann made his name in the community as a renowned book and document dealer. by | Jun 23, 2022 | replace flower bed with gravel | pickleball courts on staten island | Jun 23, 2022 | replace flower bed with gravel | pickleball courts on staten island I think that the Salt Lake LDS church is concerned with becoming the RLDS church, which has changed its narrative to a very noncompelling one, and about 80% of its members have left. I very much appreciated the beautiful memories and great stories Brent shared about what a remarkable and kind person Steve was. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. I still remember the demo you and your friends gave in the Rec Hall for Mutual. :-) I really R E A L L Y loved the podcast, and will listen to it all again today. (I think that was my only disappointment, that Brent basically gave up on God because of an epiphany.). What about your book did the church find cause to excommunicate you? In episode #276 of The Jimmy Rex Show, we sit down with a key role in Netflix Documentary Murder Among The Mormons, Brent Metcalfe.Visit and Listen to more. I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. Is having spiritual experiences while doing what some may view as critical research on the Book, when you know there may be opposing views to your work, grounds for also having these feelings? When we taught the Book of Mormon story, it was part of our presentation. Today the church has suffered too many blows to its claims of certainty to dare to treat its members the way it treated Brent Metcalfe. As an atheist I am not without my own inconvenient truths. My curiosity was piqued by something Brent briefly alluded to. Oh, that would be great! Coming! I was in a mission conference in Bolivia when Steves younger brother was called out and told of the murder. brent metcalfe excommunicated. You are hesitant to answer no evil speaking on what you cant say right ;). There was an overall feeling that he just had it together. The view of the Lamb on mount Sion gave me joy unspeakable and full of glory. My question to Brent is during or after authoring/editing New Approaches to the Book Mormon, did he have other or similar spiritual experiences that confirmed the historical facts (which may be viewed as counter experiences to those earlier in the church)? They use evidences such as paintings from the 1600s showing native americans using temple signs/tokens, apparent cuneiform writings being discovered that spell Yod Hey Va, and that the Hopewell/Adena Indians are the Nephites/Jaredites. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. 2005, page 147, 180, Sillitoe, L., & Roberts, A. D. (1988). Let me clarify. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I discovered New Approaches to the Book of Mormon back in 2002-03. She related all this to me and my companion. Thank you as well for your research, especially your work on New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. It would yield some satisfaction to me, if my misery can be a cause of happiness to others; but when I came to the place of prayer, had kneeled down, and closed my eyes, with my hands uplifted toward the heavens, I saw Jesus Christ at the right hand of God looking down upon me, and God the Father looking upon him. I served a mission with the missionary mentioned by Brent. Did any of these projects or research ever prove anything? Carl, in parts 3 & 4 of the interview, Ill discuss the BoAbr and some of the challenges that believing scholars face in analyzing its ideational and textual origins. Whatever the reasons, thanks again for your research that revealed there was MTSTWIS (More-To-See-Than-What-I-Saw). Jn Are there still more episodes of this series on the way?? I have never heard of the description that its like talking to someone in the airport on their cell phone, with all the background noise. I sensed a full range of colors in the photo that is this interview. o David Wright was excommunicated for apostasy in April 1994 for his nontraditional views on Mormon scripture as exhibited in essays like his chapter in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon. Thank you so much for the story and the insights. How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? I wish we could let go of the idea that a person can only be an expert in a particular field if they have a college degree saying they are. If you were to write a book, what aspects of the Hofmann story would you focus on? In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. I am war weary defending truths that just dont appear true anymore. Brent did a marvelous job of creating a context by which these events took place. This is the part Im most interested in: how would he suggest young aspiring researchers go about gathering and parsing primary and secondary sources?. Its done. I happened to not do soat least, not yet. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Im was left kind of hot but dry after hoping to hear about his drama with the church and its leaders.any chance of allowing closure for me here? A question for Brent, What are your thoughts on your research of the book of Abraham? [4] He grew up a member of the LDS Church in a devout family, and served a mission for the LDS Church. His contributions, reflections, thoughts and insights represent some of the most important contributions in the history of not just Mormon Stories, but Mormonism in general. We hope to rerecord sometime next week. "[7] William J. Hamblin responded specifically to an article by Metcalfe. Brent, are you still working on a Book of Abraham book? Im sure there is a very good possibility that COB personnel would have been more suspect of Jerald, and any information he offered, than Hofmann. And am I the only one who likes the older music better? I was curious about the book that Brent photocopied from the archives. End of my short story. But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. Is there going to be a part 3? What do you attribute this decline to? Rude Dog Never fear! He also talks about his early forays into Mormon studies. On Wiwikipedia, it mentions that in a hit piece done by Dan Peterson, that he encodeds the message, Metcalfe is a butthead. What were your qurarrels like with FARMS? What was most poignant to me was Brents description of his failure of faith. 2 Introduction at court. As a personal friend and research assistant for both Steve Christensen and Mark Hofmann, Brent Metcalfe watched the whole episode unfold right before his eyes. During the first part of his interview, usually John will ask a question about gaining a testimony while in the Mormon church or have spiritual experiences and then pairing those experiences with the Mormon narrative. This has to be one of my top 10 favorite Mormonstories podcasts. Excellent question. The triplet Egyptian Alphabet manuscripts and the bound Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language also elaborate the Katumin narrative. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. None of this means that believing scholars and secular scholars have to treat each other poorly or that we cannot respect (even in the midst of serious disagreement) each others work. 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. Id like to hear Mr. Metcalfe address the character, integrity and morals of LDS apostles and prophets with regard to the books of A and M. Regarding the recent essay published by the LDS church regarding the Book of Abraham; what does he think they got right and what does he think is wrong? He said that a response finally came not from Hofmann but from one of the Lafferty brothers who was apparently Hofmanns cell mate or on the same block or something like that. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Funny how I was taught at BYU The Glory of God is Intelligence I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. When you described Hoffmans futile attempts to delay the inevitable meeting where his house of cards would come tumbling down I couldnt help but compare it to the decades-long quest among some of the church leadership to keep the brand pure by weeding out doubters. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! Tom Phillips, Simon Southerton, Brent Metcalfe, Jeremy Runnells, Grant Palmer, etc. dave davies wife. Great interview. "The Mormon murders: A true story of greed, forgery, deceit, and death." So my question is, what if the effort for the book of Abraham was an attempt by JS and his close friends to deliver an esoteric masterpiece. I was nervous that you belonged to the catalyst crowd and relieved to hear your developed belief, or non belief. Why are they so adamant about excommunicating someone who has a different opinion than they do? Brent Metcalf Resides in Modesto, CA Includes Address (1) Phone (1) See Results Statistics for all 3 Brent Metcalf results: 50 yrs AVERAGE AGE 100% are in their 50s, while the average age is 50. Seventh East Press. I clearly remember the frustration in her voice. This book was way above my reading level at the time and I wonder if that may be the biggest hurdle in reaching standard Mormons about the book and its challenges. Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. John, please interview Mark Hoffman someday if you can! He is their emotional support and Sue's constant companion, her voice, advocate and her angel. Brent Metcalf. What scenario for the books origins have you constructed over your many years of study? Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . And it leaves this distrust in LDS leaders hanging with the viewer. After all, we are human! but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith.. Thank you John and Brent. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Thank you for this interview. "Everybody that ever dealt with Mark Hofmann was a victim of his, and of his deception, and I think it's just kind of a . Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) I do remember after my baptismal interview having a strong feeling of love and admiration for him because someone so respected thought I was special too. He worked directly for Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmann's victims. Visit with the Skabelund family, 9:30-10:30 am,. Brent Metcalf is entering his fifth season as a full-time assistant coach on Iowa State's wrestling staff. Hearing Brent break down the Hoffman timeline and story was amazing. ), Visitation of Hertfordshire 1572 & 1634 (London, 1886), 116. If youre familiar with image editing, straying from objectivity reminds me of having a color cast in a photo. Metcalfe subsequently resigned from the Seventh East Press and told Sunstone that he would no longer write for them. Please share your feeling about this observation as well, and how this may affect future missionary work, growth of the church and most importantly the individual peace of mind of its members. Brent, I totally empathize with Brent, and all those who were condemned for their questions and knowledge seeking behavior. In his response, he controversially included an encrypted message spelling out "Metcalfe is Butthead." I would love to hear more about what unfolded after Hoffman, including how you came to be excommunicated, if you care to share that. They are in a tough spot. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. All rights reserved. This was very similar to my experience. Lex, you might be interested in the work of Lance Owens. Brenten "Brent" Metcalfe joined NW3C after working in law enforcement for over 13 years. I just wish that I could undo everything. Despite this, though, Brent found the courage to keep his head held high and began delving deep into the issues surrounding the Book of Mormon, a topic that he had been looking to examine since the early 1980s. Thank you, I didnt know about that info. John Are you done interviewing faithful members or promoting faithful stories? Brent most recently served with the Information Security/Communication Security with the Wyoming Army National Guard as an IT Specialist. All it is is a continuation of the pain, Brent further added. [9] Metcalfe and the police were afraid Metcalfe might be a future target he went into hiding. A special thanks to Brent for giving up so much of his time to do these episodes, especially some of them as he was feeling very much under the weather. african american gastroenterologist near me; district 36 lofts; how to turn off scan text on iphone 12 This podcast inspired me to read the book Mormon Murders. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. I had no idea what your beliefs were and it piqued my interest in part 1 where you talked about scripture being inspirational yet often times not historical. It is better thought of by non-Catholics (generally), but this has not translated into conversions or retention of cradle Catholics. She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) Hamblin Methodological discussions have become commonplace in Mormon studies. [7] The LDS Church fired Brigham Young University professor David Wright for his contribution to the volume, and excommunicated both Wright and Metcalfe shortly thereafter. Surely, anyone who was even moderately sure of themselves in this case would have responded such as this : We have no idea where this letter came from, theres absolutely no truth in it and we disregard it completely.we maintain Josephs account to be true But Ashment, a fellow member of the church, said he was disgusted with those who publicly protested the church action at a rally for Murphy on Salt Lake City's Main Street plaza Sunday night. My question is: please discuss this shift or emphasis away from evidences and honest research (study it out in your mind), to just feelings, in regards to determining truth. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. Many years later in his interview with Dehlin, Brent Metcalfe tells of a conversation that he had with Mark E. Peterson where he plainly admits he was lying in his book. On acquiring a PhD, after a year of university, apart from a lack of finances, I quickly noticed that the degree factory isnt a reflection on ones intelligence. Metcalf served as the National Freestyle Developmental Coach prior to . Why have you distanced yourself from actively publishing and engaging topics on forums as you did in years past? Those mind-opening essays impacted my life in positive and powerful ways. 0% MARRIED @BHMetcalf. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! I also wanted to tell you how disturbed I became to my very core about the way you were treated during your working for the church Then the description of the events of day of the bombings, where the meeting was still set with the GA! I thought your essay in New Approaches was excellent, and certainly complicates traditional understandings of the Book of Mormon; you obviously dont believe the BoM is historical in any way, but Id also guess you would acknowledge the impressive complexity of it. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon. John in wonderfully rare form in this oneI love it! Do as I say and not as I do. This was something I surmised most of my adult life. For more information, please see our So sorry for the delay!!!! Well also talk in depth with Brent about how he has been able to construct a healthy and happy life outside of Mormonism. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. Follow @BHMetcalf. LDS was newly brought to her by a missionary before me. 100% CAUCASIAN Our ethnicity data indicates the majority is Caucasian. Please let us know. And now, as per reports, Brent Metcalfe has been able to construct a healthy and happy life for himself outside of Mormonism, where he can continue to work as an independent scholar and technical editor without any issues or restrictions. Also, I appreciate you bringing up ADD. :( Will re-record hopefully soon! I appreciate the details of Brents experience. Can you offer any insight to this? So, so good. [4], In 1993 Metcalfe organized a group of scholars to publish a series of essays that sought to apply techniques of higher criticism to the Book of Mormon. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. Im with you on the music Charles!! I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. According to Krakauer, the letter said something to the effect of, Mark wont talk to you, but I will, and you definitely want to talk to me. That response introduced Krakauer to the Laffertys and gave him the story he needed to animate what he considered his analysis of radical faith. The Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis Podcast. I did enjoy the balance that your podcast once stood for; miss the balance. Read More: Where is Terri Christensen Now? Sincerely, Terry. Some suggest that energy-conservation constraints favored our thoughts sliding along low-resistance neural ruts that include simple feel-good narratives. Brent has become one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham. Unresolved: Release in which this issue/RFE will be addressed. After returning from Iraq after the 2nd deployment as a citizen soldier, I had the same epiphany as Brent; I learned that we are really on our own, there is no God. Wow John, what an interview. You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. John Dehlin Faces Excommunication. New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. All things praised God with me. What academic publications does Mr. Metcalfe have to his name that qualifies him to be called one of the foremost scholars in understanding the Book of Abraham? He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. Although he refused to read her book, a respected Mormon scholar named J. Reuben Clark asked the Deseret News to publish his long review of No Man Knows My History. What an amazing life Brent! Its the same adhominem from his whole establishment that shows how much they think they own the intellectual world. After admiring the glory of the Lamb for some time, I began to think of the situation my body was in, and rose up to return home. It was soul-crushing, Brent said. When will the big book about the Egytian papers be out? Cookie Notice Your account of why you didnt pursue a doctorate was extremely touching to me as I absolutely admire those that can do the tedium of historical research. What has Brent done to mitigate his ADD? Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Ultimately, Id say (and I dont know that youd fundamentally disagree here) that its impossible to separate traditions like Catholicism or Mormonism from their fundamental and unique truth claims. Awesome music, right? The October 1985 bombings that killed two individuals and severely injured another was initially assumed to be related to a financial business. [] author and editor of numerous articles and two Signature Books titles, was interviewed by John Dehlin for the Mormon Stories podcast recently. Reminds me of the Mormon interpretation of Amos 3:7 (Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets). He has also served in the United States Air Force (Air National Guard) since 2004. Long question, sorry ! See the next John Whitmer Historical Association Journal for one of my essays. How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. October 20, 2021. Do you still believe in God, and what type of God? But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. Thanks Brent for sharing your story with usand to John for bringing it to us. All of these documents are available on the Joseph Smith Papers Project website. My mind was calm and at peace with God through the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world. I just saw the Netflix Documentary last night. Really, such a great family.
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